Curse

UndeadRoadkill · May 13, 2006, 11:06 PM // 23:06

I think Anet wanted to bring PvE and PvP closer together, so they created a system to make all the hostility, hatred, bitterness, elitism and immaturity of PvP flow over to the PvE side of things.

Don't like PvP because it's filled with jerks? Maybe you'll try it now, because PvE will be no different.

I salute TC for being so gracious, it's a shame they have to deal with the spiteful players from BkBds insulting them now.

RuPee · May 13, 2006, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

In anarchist communism, property no longer exists and each individual and group is only allowed what they need to survive in reasonable comfort and what they can use to give others what they, in turn, need and can use in the same way. Any material gain beyond that would be considered theft and a reassertion of property, and will be brought to justice, however justice is done. One of the most commonly recommended solutions is simply returning the property to a non-property condition. This is called "expropriation". If a fight were to erupt between the owner and the expropriator, then the owner would be the aggressor.

So, the way i see it, the blackblades are the capitalist pigs hogging all the resources (the deep), when the game is meant to be shared for the community. and the crusaders are the glorious expropriaters taking "the deep" from a small group of people and making it available to the community. And again, this whole fight is caused by the ownership of private property, which most communists would point is the source of all problems.

im so happy there's a group in GW dedicated to making elite missions available to everyone. i know anarcho communism will never become a big thing in the real world since the system is too strong, but at least i can see it working in a virtual world

.

VitisVinifera · May 13, 2006, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by pointblank187

I'm glad someone from the Black Blades responded with such immaturity. Shows where you guys are at GG! To put up some sort of a response to all this, to those that think the "elite" is taken out of the mission try to take a PUG in there and I bet you won't get past room 3 if that far.

On the note of the Black Blades, how did we cheat I'm wondering? To my knowledge at 11:00 update we haden't gotten any contributions but had gotten 1 mil ourselves between 8 guilds. You guys had gotten right around 300k or so there's part of your reason why you lost. Between me an one other person we almost matched your entire alliances contribution. Also, what about your elitist attitude and ridiculing a guild that wanted to join your alliance only a day before then deciding to take them after you found out we we're going to get them and Cavalon.

After responding to this thread last night an "ambassador" from your alliance talked to us about why all the hate. In which we said there was none and was all in fun I mean afterall, this is a game right? We thought we came to an agreement that there would be no hostilities between us but look what happens. You jump on here calling us cheaters, I've taken members from your alliance into the deep showing that we aren't discriminating only to be called names by them when they get there and basically you guys trying to do whatever you can to get your monopoly back.

While I don't knock you for being upset that you lost the capital (we were upset when we lost the two guilds) why resort to childish behavior? We just worked harder than you did and added our last 2 slots of guilds when it was time. Now that we have more or less a "community" capital we're the bad guys? How so? We were just a core group of people that had one common goal: to get Cavalon and make it enjoyable by all. Sorry it didn't work out for you to have a strangle hold on Cavalon forever. Now if you'll excuse me I need to both let more people in and do faction so we can keep this city open to the public.

post of the day!

I think we can all draw our own conclusions at this point, based upon motivations of the two parties and how they've represented themselves to us.

I can't wait to get home to do what I have left to get to Cavalon, find a good team, and hit the "elite" mission!

Loviatar · May 13, 2006, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by healerguin

But that makes no sense wat did they do wrong. Im Confused? Im pretty sure they played the game the way it was supposed to be. They worked hard and gained faction and control of cavalon. And they earned there access into cavalon. Now ppl are just going in that didnt do anything. Sure tc go and do the mission but dont let everyone in. Its not elite now. makes no sense

total elitest example of why people get the impression all pvp people are jerks which they are not

so letting in the little people instead of the pvp elite degrades your instance ?

Tortoise · May 13, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Well done TC. You can expect me knocking on your door pretty soon

.

This is one of the best ways of community protest in GW so far.

Jagflame · May 14, 2006, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Although I disagree with the general concept and will always support capitalism over communism, I do believe that TC has every right to do what they wish while they own Cavalon. I congratulate them on their victory.

Now to clear things up from my previous post.

Quote:

You think they want to keep prices out of reach of the casual player who does not want to grind hours on hours. I see them increase drop rates of superior runes, purple and gold items, giving gold, and ways of acquiring such things as bags, runes of holding, salvage kits other than purchase, for quest rewards. What I see ANet doing is everything they can to make many more things available to the casual players who do not want to spend so much of their time farming.

These items are crucial in staying competative in the game. Rare weapon skins are not. It is pointless to save up a ton of money for rare weapon skins IMO when I can just get a free collector's item which is hardly any less effective.

Quote:

You think ANet wants the attainability of the drops in the elite missions to be only attainable by those very few who faction farm better than any others. You think ANet wants the price of these items to be so outrageous that only the faction farmers can get them.

No, I didn't state any of this so I don't see where you're getting this from. I simply think the weapons should be expensive so that the elite missions are actually worth working for and doing. If the weapons didn't sell for anything then the missions would be pointless.

Quote:

Further, ANet designed this game "Factions" to be about players and guilds banning together to fight for a common cause.

So if we are all united, what is our common cause? People are usually united because they have a common enemy, or a common goal which is not yet achieved. If the goal is already achieved, or if you have no enemies, the union fails. This is hypothetical and is not always true, but works with the majority of large groups. IMO Factions was built on two causes to unite: Fighting the opposite faction and fighting for the control of cities and thus elite missions. It is impossible to unite the entire population simply because if you are all united then there is nothing left to unite against.

But I would like to point out that I was not defending BkBd in any of my posts. After seeing their member's response I have decided to make it known that I have no association with them, before anyone could say otherwise.

I do not know BkBd very well, but I know that that post was immature and that it has not been disclaimed by any BkBd authorities as of yet.

Swinging Fists · May 14, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagflame

Although I disagree with the general concept and will always support capitalism over communism, I do believe that TC has every right to do what they wish while they own Cavalon. I congratulate them on their victory.

Now to clear things up from my previous post.

These items are crucial in staying competative in the game. Rare weapon skins are not. It is pointless to save up a ton of money for rare weapon skins IMO when I can just get a free collector's item which is hardly any less effective.

No, I didn't state any of this so I don't see where you're getting this from. I simply think the weapons should be expensive so that the elite missions are actually worth working for and doing. If the weapons didn't sell for anything then the missions would be pointless.

So if we are all united, what is our common cause? People are usually united because they have a common enemy, or a common goal which is not yet achieved. If the goal is already achieved, or if you have no enemies, the union fails. This is hypothetical and is not always true, but works with the majority of large groups. IMO Factions was built on two causes to unite: Fighting the opposite faction and fighting for the control of cities and thus elite missions. It is impossible to unite the entire population simply because if you are all united then there is nothing left to unite against.

But I would like to point out that I was not defending BkBd in any of my posts. After seeing their member's response I have decided to make it known that I have no association with them, before anyone could say otherwise.

I do not know BkBd very well, but I know that that post was immature and that it has not been disclaimed by any BkBd authorities as of yet.

AFAIK, the rare weapon skins will still be only acquired by the select few players who are able to get to that part of the elite mission. I haven't been to the Deep yet, thanks to the Black Blades, so I don't know for sure how far into the mission these rare drops are, but at least now I can give it a shot, as can you and everyone else, thanks to TC.

As for us all being united, are we ? I see at least two distinct groups of people, those that want free access, TC and friends, and those that want it all to themselves, Black Blades and their friends. As someone who obviously supports this open idea, I see the common objective of my side being the attempt to keep Cavalon open to all. For me, that is something worth fighting for.

beanerman_99 · May 14, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Go TC! Power to the People!

Kcp · May 14, 2006, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Funny how in several posts bkBd members said "noone can make it out of the first room"

Second trip in,after some build adjustments, with a pug I might add we slaughtered our way about an hour and a 1/2 in to the deep. Then lost several members due to err=7's and couldnt procede.

Bkbd were just blowing themselves up. Even telling everyone the drops sucked inside yada yada. It was all a lie on their part. Rares do drop frequently, And it isn't as impossible to kill anything inside as they say. Finally a challenge in factions yes, impossible, no.

Funny they are still throwing little kid hissy fits....made my day to log on and see what has become of factions

Oldmantime · May 14, 2006, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swinging Fists

I see ANet has created a very difficult, the most challenging of any other in the game, mission that by Black Blades' admission takes well over 4 hours to complete.

I just gotta add to that, the black blades must be the worst pvers the world has ever seen, that's nearly twice as long as it took me in a pick up group to get to the boss (it took just over 2hr 30mins for us). I mean seriously are telling me a guild group that can't measure up to a PUG is the only one "elite" enough for this mission? that just makes want to laugh. funnily enough we had a black blades member in our pick up and he was the player who died the most consistantly and over aggrod all the time.

edit: oh and i was really going to try and not flame the black blades but after reading THAT post, you know the one, i felt i had to :P

Engel the Fallen · May 14, 2006, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Hum, this thread has turned interesting. When I saw this when I got up I was like oh great, another guild with some scheme to control an area and use it for personal gain. Read through some of the thread and assumed it was all total crap and went in game. Then noticed, wow, that guild BSing on Guru did take Calavan by a commanding lead. Then I noticed the oddest thing. The alliance was ACTIVELY bringing people over en masse. They had people grinding others into this area. Got a few rides adjusting skills and the people ferrying made it clear they had no desire for gold when it was offered. The only thing said was when gold was offered, that if the guild starts to lose control, faction donations would be helpful.

Funny how outraged people are at this set up. This alliance seeks not only to end elitism in regards to these mission, but also actively keep there promise of opening it up to all. In return, they are just letting people know one simple thing. They are in fact human, and cannot get unlimited faction per day. So in return for having people ferrying constantly if they are about to lose control, donating will be the only way to be sure to keep this area open.

Is this wrong of them? Is it too much to ask? Of course not. I will personally hound my guild to dump into these guys alliance standing if they are about to lose control, and Black Blades made it clear they did not want us regular players in this area. So letting them or a guild like that get control, means no more access for the common player who cannot sit and grind out millions of faction a week. It is far easier to just ask people if they would like to help access to this area open for all, and dropping off what they can.

I do wish XoO would take note of how this works and consider doing the same. While some hate XoO, I found them to be fairly truthful in what they say. They will bring people over, but not to this level. However maybe if they did, they could ease up on the amount of faction they need to farm as well with donations.

If both commanding alliances did this, then maybe ANET would wake up and see the community as a whole wishes to end elitism, even if it means donating there faction to another alliance.

And for the difficulty of this mission, my alliance with two pugs and two friends of friends made it the Oni bridge of death third try. This was without buying or unlocking any special skills, or changing secondaries. We used whatever we had when we entered. But according to some alliances we were not leet enough to play here.

Now finally in regards to TC ruining ANET's design, we all know that is a load. Top PvP players and other well know players easily were granted access into these areas by the controlling guilds. I mean what American guild would have the balls to tell a member from Te or IQ they were not worthy of this area? I know the bulk of the random guild tags I see from people in Kurzick land are from top PvP guilds. If these guys were allowed in, as were friends of friends with no problem, then were is the line drawn? As said if ANET did not want outsiders in, they would have forbidden non-alliance members from being carted in.

Anyway this is long winded, so I will end it here. Good job to all the members of TC. While alot of people bitched out these missions, you went out and fixed the problem, sacrificing a great portion of your time to do so. When we define elite players, I think people like this deserve the title more than people who solely farm. They were able to look past themselves and item profit. Hell I am not sure many even got to play these missions personally, as the guys we partied with always had to run off to help with alliance faction or to cart more in.

I am curious if Gaile will mention you or ANET takes notice of not only the reaction to alliance only controlled areas, but to how people perceive what TC is doing here.

Hockster · May 14, 2006, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akasun Sasori

3. Call me an Elitist, or a jerk, or just about anything else yall want. But at least are not f***ing cheaters.Yours Truly, Akasun Sasori

You are indeed, but forcing members to meet a quota is better? What a frickin joke. You guys are nothing but a bunch of noobtards.

Jagflame · May 14, 2006, 02:48 AM // 02:48

I have no doubt that TC's cause is noble, as would be someone's who gave money to a begger who just spent it on drugs. But I simply do not believe everyone should have access to this mission, for reasons already stated, and this is coming from someone who probably will never come close to controlling even a regular city, let alone Cavalon.

Obviously I am going to be in the minority, though, because all most people think when they hear about this is "z0mg free stuff pl0x" and simply think that the game mechanics are better as long is it benefits them. This is true for life as well. Human nature will never change.

I am not saying that access to elite missions should be set by the amount of faction an alliance has. I am merely saying that access should not be given freely. There are plenty of other places to explore/fight/farm.

Wessels · May 14, 2006, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Quote:

I am not saying that access to elite missions should be set by the amount of faction an alliance has.

but this is the case now ... as I mentioned elsewhere : when you arrive in either Kurzick or Luxon territory the "farming-spree " commences - if only to complete the "befriend -quest" which is required to gain access to "normal" content ( not even elite-missions) - you have no choice in the matter . If you want to get luxon or Kurzick armor you have to do those repeatable quests quite a lot of times as well. Not even considering the 15k armor here..so I can imagine what it takes to control a town.

As it is now the whole "post empire" content is completely focused on farming faction . I don't think this was a brilliant idea.

Jagflame · May 14, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

I know this is the case now... and although it is not a great system, it is still much better than everyone having free access.

photics · May 14, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen

Good job to all the members of TC. While alot of people bitched out these missions, you went out and fixed the problem, sacrificing a great portion of your time to do so. When we define elite players, I think people like this deserve the title more than people who solely farm. They were able to look past themselves and item profit. Hell I am not sure many even got to play these missions personally, as the guys we partied with always had to run off to help with alliance faction or to cart more in.

I am curious if Gaile will mention you or ANET takes notice of not only the reaction to alliance only controlled areas, but to how people perceive what TC is doing here.

Engel... thank you! That was a great post!

...and no, I've never played The Deep (Elite) mission. After I did a few ferry runs, bringing players into the map, I went right back to Faction Farming. Actually, I think it's time for some more faction farming right now!

Oldmantime · May 14, 2006, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagflame

I know this is the case now... and although it is not a great system, it is still much better than everyone having free access.

no it's not, simple as that, grinding completely w/o talent or skill is a terrible idea, it doesn't even make sense, destroys the game, it's not fun, it's not challenging. i'd rather not work in a game as well as real life, i play them to have fun

oh and i do think there should be some difficult tasks to pass to get into these missions (would probably keep the black blades out). Something difficult that actually required SKILL AND NOT GRINDING. free access like this is better than having to spend a few weeks straight grinding 24/7

Sir_BlackJack · May 14, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

I highly doubt that the flame that came from the supposed BkBd member is infact a member of this guild.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...98#post1346398

GloryFox · May 14, 2006, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Dear TC..

Thank you

Edge Martinez · May 14, 2006, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Dear A-Net, you guys know I love you all and support yas, but please leave this elite mission bullshit out of chapter 3. Awarding anything with the term 'elite' online is like throwing a Kit Kat bar into a group of retards. The ensuing scrum is fun to watch, but after awhile it gets old and repetitive.

Right now I just write off elites as my gift back to yous. If there's any more of this faction farming crap in chapter 3, many of the target audience... remember us? The casual players?... will be very upset.